What about what God foreordained someone else to say that is different. Just happy to be able to trust that God really is good again. I just ordered the book! . I think you will see that there are real differences: http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? I think you may have answered that in your post: I told her that we, as non-Calvinists, have to move beyond what we believe is the logical conclusion of their argument (God orchestrating evil and pain) and try to understand that somehow Calvinists, who suggest a God who allows for abuse, is actually a God of love. you'll occasionally see Calvinist doctrines pop up even among the occasional practitioner of any tradition. But there are reasons not to make it an issue. God is immense beyond our comprehension and because of that, I do not believe the Calvinist ideas of Sovereignty (or the related principles of TULIP). JeffB Great question and Im glad you asked. Yet, somewhere after the third paragraph, this young, rudderless teen stopped reading, glanced over at Star Trek on the television, began to cry, whispered, I believe and crossed that final frontier from unbelief into belief. Packer James Montgomery Boice James White John F. MacArthur John Piper Joshua Harris Loraine Boettner Albert Mohler R.C. Considering the amount of people we are seeing who have had these experiences, I wish the accusations about misrepresenting the Reformed/Calvin/Tulip systems would take a back seat. This can apply to spiritual things, to living life with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. G. Campbell Morgan 16. The thread on JAs blog really threw me off kilter. Witherington and Lenski are not Calvinists, but they're not Arminians, either. Why can we not focus on God and Jesus and what He did for us? Rather, I am encouraging those that may be suffering under a Calvinista doctrine that it is OK sometimes to say I dont know. Per PSA, I am pretty sure that that is the official stance of the Lutheran end of thingsbut I really shouldnt be talking about theories of the atonement because I havent studied them worth a hoot. I dont want to do either of those things, and I dont want to argue about it any more. @ Daisy: The Calvinistas have just put a new spin on how to usurp Gods authority (the Holy Spirit) over the individual believer. My bet would be that some (many?) Something like that. FWIW, Ive run across many Calvinists (not teachers) who misunderstand Total Depravity. If Im wrong, I apologize. The simple interpretation of total depravity is this: because you are human (totally), you are perpetually and inexorably morally corrupt, and the only way you can understand any truth is if God functionally does it for you via the doctrine of arbitrary election. When I, a Calvinist (as much as would prefer not to wear the title), hear someone say Calvinism is evil, yes I want to defend it. What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? So, in that manner, I have some suggestion on how to view Calvinists as a non-Calvinist. Lets get this person through their crisis and love on them. I know you know how to do that because Ive seen you do it at ACFJ. Understand that they think we are as illogical as we think they are illogical. He sets a great example and I appreciate his ability to charitable in discussing beliefs that others dont believe or accept. Apparently Imade some remark that all infants who die go to heaven. It is nice to meet someone who remembers.If you dont mind me prying, where did you grow up? @ janet: Buuuuuut the problem with this is that trying to pin a Calvinist down on what doctrines they actually believe is like trying to hold a wriggling cat using hands stuck in oven mitts (not that wed be putting the cat in the overgross, and, uh, cruel). I realize that, even with these qualifications, there are those who find such a God abhorrent, and that there are some who will be upset by the notion of such a God, probably because of some terrible thing they went through. Its a tough line to walk, though. Instead of debating, try to learn from the other person. But I can say, knowing what I now know about God, that God would never ever ever have set the evil I suffered in place intentionally. He was the leading French Protestant reformer and the most important figure in the second generation of the Protestant Reformation. They tend to carry on for a long time about it and end up calling people heretic (Ive seen this done on both sides of the debate though ) as the conversation ensues. Hence the terrible attitude of many evangelicals towards science. The ideas of bad and good are meaningless in Calvinist doctrine. Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just "read the Bible," Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology. But the rest of the bad stuff? TWW received a comment from one of our nice Calvinist readers. Might we call what youre describing love? And its not because we cant or are unwilling (as in errant school children who just need some tutoring) to accept, Gods ways to be different from ours.. So MY goals when I talk about Calvinism here on the forum are to a) clear up misconceptions that would cause people to unnecessarily reject the theology so that they can know for real what it is they are rejecting. I can see why many walk away . However, their first names do arouse my suspicions. There is a reason there has been a debate for centuries. Tell othersthat such thinking hurts you but do not expect them to understand. I think that is why it is good that Dee/Deb use the term Cavinista. It doesnt conform to our sense of fairness and love. Nope, not a Cal. Infused?
Ever Wonder if Someone Was a Calvinist? Here is the Big List A person who has been abused should get A LOT of leeway in airing their feelings, because for a time (maybe a LONG time), the value of their free expression is more important than trying to protect a viewpoint. 4) Christ died NOT for us, but to bring glory to the Father. So if you disagree with me, you must be doomed to hell as a heretic, since you contradict what God has put in my mind to say. External Leaders When members begin to question the fidelity of their pastor's teaching, they rarely (regrettably) go to their pastor. I hadnt thought of it that way. God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point.. But what I am hoping is that you, as well as me, can instead understand the objections so well that you can begin to understand why a few quotes from Calvin, along with a few Bible verses, do not answer the deeper questions.. I am much more hyper in my comments than they are.
Theologians - Laikos Theologos I view myself as rescued by God and dependent on his grace. Inevitably, then, youll sometimes find restless young men who want to make a name for themselves (and who hasnt been there) (other than restless young women) will take the idea and make it a point of honour to run as far as they can with it. I kept a notebook, carefully writing all of the arguments in favor of Calvinism. Could the person have simply avoided it and gone to someplace else without even making the comment? I will say they are much more composed personalities. @ dee: Hey, my Lutheran background is a lot of things, but Calvinist it aint! Takes great delight in you living your life, the ups and the downs. I know that it started spontaneously on another thread, but you could have said enough.. Prayer Requests Westboro Baptist uses the Bible for a proof text for hatred. The Calvinist thought process is: God has foreordained every word I say, therefore, I cannot be wrong. Thank you, thank you, for getting it right! Do arminians believe in salvation through faith? It helped me to understand that both sides of this argument believe that their point of view is logical. When two sides have good arguments, it leads me to believe that there is a third or different way that encompasses both. I dont know if that helps or confuses- I wish I could have quoted more. I always thought of it as the Good News of the death and Resurrection of Jesus which resulted in the forgiveness of sins for those of us who believe. I DO think that Calvinism is misconstrued a lot by people in this position, but either way its not a good time or place to try and correct them. I told her that we, as non-Calvinists, have to move beyond what we believe is the logical conclusion of their argument (God orchestrating evil and pain) and try to understand that somehow Calvinists, who suggest a God who allows for abuse, is actually a God of love.
list of non calvinist theologians - cleanworld.com Deb and are are well aware of the criticism we are receiving from some non-Calvinists because we feature sermons by Wade Burleson. This is not the Calvinist thought process. Tell himhow much you love the Lord and live outyour Christianlife. Yes, I believe that what were on earth mainly to do is bring glory to God Witherington doesn't like to be put in either camp, and Lenski is Lutheran. I think I stated why above. I am not trying to argue doctrine, because that is not my or anyone elses business here. God does indeed work in mysterious and wonderful ways. Yet again! If I were there when a Calvinist or any other professing believer (or atheist or whatever) told someone who was suffering or grieving something that was sure to make the person feel worse, I can practically guarantee that I would shut that person up and have words with him/her. CALVIN!, The Bible? Look for them. I always try to be sensitive, and Ive communicated before that I agree that theology should take a backseat. I think that our doctrinal systems are mans attempt to understand based on what God has presented to us. Thats why I wrote If we disagree, let us disagree on what we see in Scripture, not on our own sense of right and wrong.. This short paper contains a list of common-sense and biblical arguments and counter-arguments against Calvinism and predestination. In what way it is wrong needs to be determined. We are also workers. I think it means that God is aware of every molecule (which He created, of course), and that none of them escapes His will. Yes, Jeff S. It is important to try and balance the need to have a voice and going too vitriolic. Hi guys, great posts, esp (from a personal point of view) from Jeff S, TW, Nick Bulbeck and others its been such a long thread I cant remember them all . Having left my few years of Calvinism through a Lutheran rescue :), I cannot express the relief and renewal- or perhaps, first real taste- of the joy of my salvation. Or to say it differently, I loosely hold to the idea that God is in control of every molecule. Some of the resources that have helped me to be a non calvinist are. (But I always wondered why, if it was not His desire that any man should perish, that He also would create someone specifically for hell??). I witnessed a weird detachment with this thinking, and people almost having to downplay love or relationship with others.. One reason is because I have gone through periods where I questioned Gods goodness because of certain events in my life and in those of others.